Curse

gabby2600 · Aug 28, 2005, 05:16 AM // 05:16

As the story goes you cannot see the Merrsat, until your ascended then they should make that the case, then you have to do that part of the game in order to do the later missions.

Also I know this will be unpopular with the PvP crowd, attribute refund points should not be given until after ascension. So if your PvE character is stuck with the stats they choose until they have ascended. This should not affect PvP, and make PvE more of a challenge. Whilst also make non max damage equipment more useful, and valuable. There would not be such a high demand for gold items so their prices should drop. Other games handle this be putting a fixed level on the items so you cannot use the supper powerful sword at lvl 5. But because of the dynamic way attributes are done at about lvl 6-7 you can use some of the most powerful stuff. Which renders most of the non max damage stuff pointless, and there is no point in it being in the game.

So having their level of usage based of a fixed stat rather than a floating one might change things and give a different angle to PvE. Also it would give ascension more meaning. So you can change your stats as you see fit. It won’t stop the rushers but it might have a positive impact on the economy and slow down some of the farming or gold items.

gabby

Red Sonya · Aug 28, 2005, 05:25 AM // 05:25

If I couldn't change my attribute points when I wanted to based on experienced gain to do it, I'da quit a long time ago. Figure something else out, they aren't going to change the ability to change attribute points except maybe during battle, that's the only time I would agree with making it so you can't change mid battles/missions.

Bast · Aug 28, 2005, 10:19 AM // 10:19

1.) Refund Points suck anyway. Unlimited refunds in Towns/Outposts/Staging Areas/Guild Halls/Blah ftw.

2.) PVE isn't difficult; making it impossible to refund stats until ascension wouldn't make a difference at all. It'd just be annoying.

3.) Gold items are no better than anything else. Don't like the price? Get a collector's item and buy upgrades for it. Same thing.

4.) UAS for the win.

Soul Shaker · Aug 28, 2005, 10:24 AM // 10:24

Keep the PvP rewards as they are and never talk about UAS again. Otherwise, hell no on the no ability to change until ascension, but lvl requirements on items is good.

gabby2600 · Aug 28, 2005, 05:01 PM // 17:01

It was just an idea I thought about, becaue I hardly every change attribute point in the eary stages of the gaem. As this gives me a chance to get used to how a set of skills works.

The only time I have change ann=y attibutes inth early stages was to go farming, which is antoher thing this idea might combat, and thats the many overly powerful farming and bot builds.

I'd say what I have her is part suggestion, part bouncing ideas off people to see if it is possible to get a debate going rather than the usual 'hell no not in my game posts.'

One and Two · Aug 28, 2005, 05:06 PM // 17:06

the idea of attribute points is to experiment with different build. farming is legitimate btw, the frog said so.

edit: on the other hand, too many newbs go around like "i have a character thats ascended!" and they make it into a big deal. Which its not. All that happened is you got experience, and you go to say hi to glint.

gabby2600 · Aug 28, 2005, 05:55 PM // 17:55

I think Assencion needs to mean something, other than allowing you in to the UW and FoW. Because if you don't want to go in there than you can jsut skip most of the game, and complete it at lvl 4. Which is nto the way it's meant to be played.

I generally play the game to enjoy it, I don't play to exploit of farm, I'm not getting to a point of frustration with the rampant FoTM builds crappy attitude of players, and exploiting. That my enjoyment as a PvE player is being leached out, even though WoW has it's flaws and grind it starting to get more enjoyable than this.

This game was never ment to be Diablo 2 but it's sure going that way. If the average PvE player want to actually play the game as a team or enjoy things it's usually shattered by the exploites and Ihave to say it 'w*nkers' in the game. My forst Experiewnce of WoW was a Lvl 50 character helping me out and giving me stuff, this never happens here. Anyway I digress.

It would be interesting to see all Merssat being invisable to non assended players and watch them crap themselves when invisable things kill them. However I think Asseension needs to mean more, it's supposed to be a big part of the game. But with the Droknar's runners it's reduced to the status of just another quest.

I would love to know exactly how A.net expected this game to be played and compare it to what people are doing now. As I can assume they expected eveyone to go through assension. I think the game deffinatly need more of a point to it, becasue a D2 style exploit and grief fest it not fun anymore. Offering somethign truly wonderfull at assension would deffinitly give it more point. Which is why I suggested no refund point untill assension. Those people who wanted to use refund points could do what they do now, get run to Sanctum Cay and do the assension missions. So in a few hours they can get everything they want. Then they can come back and farm and run. It would offer more of a challange to the people who want to enjoy the game, and give assencion some meaning, as in you assend and you can go back and play around with infinate refund points and builds.

People say they would stop playing if it was done this way but on the other hand people would stop playing if they gave infinate refund points form the get go. To most peoepl haveing no refund point would make little differance as many of them run through to assension or Droknars. It would really only make a differance to those people who want to play the game as it was meant to be played.

I'm basically saying this would work like if you wanted to play and create exploit builds then you at least have to achive some goals. As just making it easier to change builds really just degraded from PvE, but for PvP it's essensial.

A way to look at getting what you want is compromise, Demands and wants arn't going to get the best looking at. So this could be a away to get infinat refund points, but make that sacrifice to the early sections of the game which most people skip through, and then once assecended you can get what you want. As demonstrated damanding something realy makes little differance, but offering a comprimise does. As essentially Faction is a comprimise between the original way of doing things and UAS. UAS isn't going to happen A.net developrs have said so, so live with it. So rather than demand infinate refund point come up with a viable comprimise to get what you want.

Age · Aug 28, 2005, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Ascention to me means nothing reaching level 20 now that does and I need my refund points in PVP as I have very little and I get no skill points.It is funny I can play in the toughest part of the game and still can't go to the the FOW and UW.That is a walk in park compared to the hall of heros.I believe that only PVP char. should be allowed to play in HOH just to be fair keep PVE char. out.

One and Two · Aug 28, 2005, 08:44 PM // 20:44

mmm hm..

like i said, for pvp refunds:

when you dont have any points left, delete the pvp character and make it again! Bam, new points for you! and not only that, but you get to dye the character and change its name if you didnt like it before.

Red Sonya · Aug 29, 2005, 12:13 AM // 00:13

You need to read the lastest fansite Friday Gabby and a few other ones previous, they aren't against "farming", nor are they against people who want to "run" the content. The fansite fridays posts have said so. There intentions are to mainly prevent pure botting farming and overly powerful skills in the PVP portion of the game although some of the changes will affect the pve portion as well like Protective Bond.
I wish it were more Diablo 2 like. At least Diablo 2 was fun cause you were always finding something new. Thing about Diablo 2 though is it got "harder" as you finished the story, unfortunately GW's doesn't, so that makes the pve game stale and boring and thus only farming really the only thing left for pve type players. I'd get a kick and a half to be able and go back and fight lvl 24 charr that was my favorite portion of the game. Diessa Lowlands was one of the best designed areas of the whole game imho. And mission 3 is still one of my favorites. To be able and go back and play a harder version of those would be my choice of change.

Age · Aug 29, 2005, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by One and Two

mmm hm..

like i said, for pvp refunds:

when you dont have any points left, delete the pvp character and make it again! Bam, new points for you! and not only that, but you get to dye the character and change its name if you didnt like it before.

Some of us don't want to create another PVP charactor as we have put time into making them up with runes and such and weapons upgrades and maybe unlocking a few skills.It would be like deleting a level 20 ascended PVE charactor i dare you to do that.I will not delete my PVP charactor and plus I use mine as extra storage oh good idea.You see now although you are PVEer and have no idea of what it would be like creating a new one.I liked UAS btw back in beta and I hate all this grind it takes to get it.

Wolvenbear · Aug 29, 2005, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Gabby I do like your idea that Ascention should mean something. It's a big deal to the storyline and should be a big deal to the players. (Not forcedly a big deal, but something you are proud of accomplishing.) It took me quite a few tries to kill the doppleganger on my first character but I didn't give up. And what do I have to show for it? A bit of exp and... a divine symbol I promptly sold to the merchant for 10 gold.

As far as the idea of not getting attribute refunds until after ascention: that is not a good idea. I'm working on my 4th PvE character who is in the desert now. You and I both know the tutorial section of the game is pretty easy. But for a first-timer it's a big world full of new things to try. But what if you put all your attribute points into Swordmanship and later decide you actually want to use an axe? No attribute refunds = no experimentation without deleting characters = that just sucks. Ascention is a good 85% of the way through the game. After that, it's just Glint and six more missions until you're done. Heck, Ice Caves can be skipped and Infusion can be run. That's just Thunderhead Keep and the Fire Islands. Would you really want to wait that long to respec your character?

I understand and agree with your idea but I don't like the implimentation. Perhaps a set of Ascention Armor available at Drok's? Same exact stats but a powerful looking glow. Something to signify to other players "I've Ascended....fear me!". Maybe Sorrow's Furnace will have some new areas that only Ascended players can access. I'm hoping it will at least reward those PvE characters who have completed the storyline (and for all the PvPers out there, give some extra arenas too).

Now for the items comment... sure at level 8 I could have all my points in one category and affectively weild any [of that type] weapon in the game. But can you imagine how ineffective that character would be? Let's use the cookiecutter W/Mo for an example. All points into Swordsmanship so he can use that Fiery Dragon Sword. Sure, it looks cool but with no points in Strength, he isn't hitting as hard as he could. With no points in Tactics, his survival rating is lower. With no points in his monk skills, he just wasted a secondary. If you are simply sad that all the new players can have all the cool looking stuff just like the vets then I feel your pain. I worked really hard to get my good Energy+ items for my casters. But maybe that level 5 W/Mo with a Fiery Dragon Sword has a lvl 20 character who looted that exact sword. He worked for it too and should be able to display his accomplishment. Of course there are a few Ebay twinks out there who bought gold and got some 15k armor but that's another rant.

Still, I like your idea that Ascention should be more important.

[edit ... Spell checking at 4:AM is not a good thing]

βlitzkrieg · Aug 29, 2005, 09:28 AM // 09:28

No way(the attribute thing)!

I hate the attribute thing as it is, I think we should have an immortal ammount: this game is about Startegy, right?

blane · Aug 29, 2005, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Just close the Lornar's Pass to prevent runnings to Droknor. Or make it accessible only to ascended characters. So the best armor set will be available only through ascension.

Soul Shaker · Aug 29, 2005, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by blane

Just close the Lornar's Pass to prevent runnings to Droknor. Or make it accessible only to ascended characters. So the best armor set will be available only through ascension.

No, then that's no fun. Lornar's pass is there as a challenge, so they should make it so. Add some more powerful monsters, put some bosses there, make it unrunnable. And maybe just throw in a few mursaat for kicks. Some people simply don't wanna do acension, so maybe add lvl requirments to armour. Like for max armour 19 or 20, desert armour, 17, ventari's/quarrel/henge, 14, yak's/lion's 8, good ascalon 4, basic 0. Oh, and 15k/FoW, 20 or maybe even ascended for 15k armours as well....

Perishiko ReLLiK · Aug 29, 2005, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Ugh...

People, people... come on now. Even guild wars dev's are for rushers, and actually like the idea. That's right, not against it. The most they're against is the scammers (who they will take action upon), and the exploitable "armor in ascalon arena" (which is said to be worked on).

If you don't like rushing, then you havent beaten the game more then twice... Or, you're too cheap to pay for it. Either way, we dont care about your opinions on rushing. Lornars pass was put there for the reason to get down to droknars.

No attribute refunds untill ascention... Kid, are you high? Seriously man... that doesnt make things tough, it makes things boring and annoying.

Making non-max equipment more useful... Jokes aside, what drugs are you on? Collectors items make anything possible... tired of not having good equipment... just hunt some things down. That gold writing in the name means only one thing, it's rare, and other then that, nobody cares. Max equipment is expensive, because people dont want others to have that little "edge" on them in pvp. Nothing will change that.

Items level restrictions? Man, there practicly already are restrictions... if you havent seen them, they say something like this:: (req. 9 swordsmanship). That's right, and untill you have 9, you're not dealing damage to its full potential.

Bottom line, lay off the drugs. This game isnt "challenging" because of complainers. That's right, the game use to be a pain in the ass to get through, but through the miracles of forums and people whining, the game lost its need for skill to play. Now any joe can come and play all the way up to ascention. And even then, they can still leach off the skill of others.

Charcoal Ann · Aug 29, 2005, 11:02 AM // 11:02

well on the subject of the attribute refunds...
i just ascended my new Mo/Me last week. i'm kitted out for full heaing. how exactly am i supposed to beat my chaos axe wielding doppel when i can't rearrange my attributes to have at least a bit of smiting.
just an example i'm sure that there are more.

you can say to plan ahead and have some in smiting from the start but:
1)what if it is my first time?
2)that means that there will be no experienced full heal chars, everyone will be half smite.

DrSLUGFly · Aug 29, 2005, 11:27 AM // 11:27

End game won't mean anything for PvP only players... Because why would they care about a goal in a game they're not interested in.

However, for PvE characters, both Ascension and end-game are sorely lacking.

It's a tiny fix, but I propose a token item... something that does very little (while in your inventory, say... +5 to nrg or health just for having it on your person), is customized to you (ie. can't even give it away) and is totally unique in that only those who have ascended or beat the last boss have it. It should be showable in the trade window though, if you want to show it off.

It's small and relatively useless, but we need something to show that we've gone through... perhaps there could also be one for having done every mission and bonus. That would make 3 in total... maybe (going off on a limb here) these three things could even be combined into a single artifact.

Ascend = +3 energy artifact that works while in your inventory
Kill last boss = +3 health artifact that works while in your inventory
Beat every quest and mission = +2 health, +2 energy artifact that works while in inventory.

Combine any two to get an extra +1 health and energy, combine all 3 to get +2 health and energy giving you a +7 health and +7, small but still slightly significant.

Zubrowka · Aug 30, 2005, 05:04 AM // 05:04

The doppleganger was the biggest disappointment in the game. She didn't even look like me! I wouldn't really call her a challenge. Unless you know a particular trick, she's close to unbeatable. If you know it, then she drops in seconds.

In my opinion, the Seer should refuse to infuse the armours of those who haven't ascended. That would fit in with the storyline, as he/she mentioned hearing about you from the dragon Glint.

magicplayer.exe · Sep 01, 2005, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zubrowka

The doppleganger was the biggest disappointment in the game. She didn't even look like me! I wouldn't really call her a challenge. Unless you know a particular trick, she's close to unbeatable. If you know it, then she drops in seconds.

so true, I killed it in under 50 seconds on first or second try

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zubrowka

In my opinion, the Seer should refuse to infuse the armours of those who haven't ascended. That would fit in with the storyline, as he/she mentioned hearing about you from the dragon Glint.

That would be a good idel, or you can't face the mursaant till you have acended